Comments on: Our Space Future in the 21st Century – Part 1: Where Will We Be in Space in 2100? https://techsomogro.com/space-humanity-21st-century-part-11-space-2100/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=space-humanity-21st-century-part-11-space-2100 Science, Technology and the Future Mon, 19 Feb 2018 00:59:49 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.5.3 By: The Future of Space Travel – DAILY WAFFLE https://techsomogro.com/space-humanity-21st-century-part-11-space-2100/#comment-15107 Mon, 19 Feb 2018 00:59:49 +0000 http://www.21stcentech.com/?p=4677#comment-15107 […] heating up between the likes NASA, SpaceX and Mars, this figure is estimated to reach 10,000 by 2050! In just over 30 years time is has been predicted that humans will not only be able to go on […]

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By: NASA turn the temperature up with their mission to the Sun And Other Space Predictions - Joornlist https://techsomogro.com/space-humanity-21st-century-part-11-space-2100/#comment-15087 Fri, 19 Jan 2018 22:31:48 +0000 http://www.21stcentech.com/?p=4677#comment-15087 […] There have currently been just over 500 people who have travelled to space, but with companies like NASA, SpaceX and Mars One determined to get humans off of Earth as soon as possible, this figure is expected to reach 10,000 by 2050! […]

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By: Allen Gage https://techsomogro.com/space-humanity-21st-century-part-11-space-2100/#comment-13834 Fri, 03 Oct 2014 23:02:00 +0000 http://www.21stcentech.com/?p=4677#comment-13834 lenrosen4. ((I believe highly intelligent machines will lead the way. But organic beings will follow.)) I doubt highly intelligent machines will have much desire or purpose to go. The physics of material transport between stars makes most of the argument. It takes the energy of 10 MT of TNT to accelerate a bumble bee’s material body to 30,000 km/sec. If we want physical humans to visit planets orbiting other stars, we must first create the universe’s smartest bumble bees, which we could then send to extra-solar destination planets. When after centuries or eons the sleeping bees arrive and awaken, they begin to use asteroid or comet or Ort Cloud material to manufacture humans out of the DNA and mental patterns they have stored and carried across the interstellar void. So the swarm of interstellar bumble bee wizards will first need to build a human factory nest. Depending upon how strong and competent the super bumble bees might be, within a few decades the bees should have spawned a viable population of humans with whom they could mind-meld. One could envision this as a general universal pattern for how organic life might spread throughout the cosmos. But the key factor is the AI bumble bees, which have little or no interest in interstellar travel, must transport the patterns for, and do the material reconstruction of, the humans or other complex organic species. Without the universe’s smartest bumble bees, organic life is pretty well stuck on the planets of its origins or with accidental panspermia.]]> In reply to lenrosen4.

((I believe highly intelligent machines will lead the way. But organic beings will follow.))

I doubt highly intelligent machines will have much desire or purpose to go. The physics of material transport between stars makes most of the argument. It takes the energy of 10 MT of TNT to accelerate a bumble bee’s material body to 30,000 km/sec. If we want physical humans to visit planets orbiting other stars, we must first create the universe’s smartest bumble bees, which we could then send to extra-solar destination planets. When after centuries or eons the sleeping bees arrive and awaken, they begin to use asteroid or comet or Ort Cloud material to manufacture humans out of the DNA and mental patterns they have stored and carried across the interstellar void. So the swarm of interstellar bumble bee wizards will first need to build a human factory nest. Depending upon how strong and competent the super bumble bees might be, within a few decades the bees should have spawned a viable population of humans with whom they could mind-meld. One could envision this as a general universal pattern for how organic life might spread throughout the cosmos. But the key factor is the AI bumble bees, which have little or no interest in interstellar travel, must transport the patterns for, and do the material reconstruction of, the humans or other complex organic species. Without the universe’s smartest bumble bees, organic life is pretty well stuck on the planets of its origins or with accidental panspermia.

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By: Niccolo5 https://techsomogro.com/space-humanity-21st-century-part-11-space-2100/#comment-1329 Sat, 04 Aug 2012 05:47:23 +0000 http://www.21stcentech.com/?p=4677#comment-1329 An immortal AI person need not be tied to any particulat physical body. For social interaction with humans on Earth mind meld with organic brains makes sense, but for space exploration and development, an AI person would want to meld with a robotic body/electronic brain. The robot body can operate in high radiation, high temp, low temp, high vacuum, high g, zero g, and is much stronger than organic bodies. More importantly, destruction of the robotic physical system doesn't "kill" the mind that actuates it.]]> <>

An immortal AI person need not be tied to any particulat physical body. For social interaction with humans on Earth mind meld with organic brains makes sense, but for space exploration and development, an AI person would want to meld with a robotic body/electronic brain. The robot body can operate in high radiation, high temp, low temp, high vacuum, high g, zero g, and is much stronger than organic bodies. More importantly, destruction of the robotic physical system doesn’t “kill” the mind that actuates it.

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By: lenrosen4 https://techsomogro.com/space-humanity-21st-century-part-11-space-2100/#comment-1302 Thu, 02 Aug 2012 13:43:28 +0000 http://www.21stcentech.com/?p=4677#comment-1302 Niccolo5. I believe that holographic technology will give most of us a sense of experiencing the surrounding cosmos. But when most of us equals 9 billion that shouldn't be surprising. In Part 1 of "Our Space Future" I "boldly" predicted that the human population of the Solar System beyond Earth will be 1,000,000 by 2100, I am not in disagreement with you. Those 1,000,000 will both resemble and not resemble Earth-based humanity. In my prognostications I envision a synergy between human and artificial intelligence, not necessarily a singularity but certainly symbiosis. I also believe that artificial intelligence will receive not only equal recognition but also equal rights to humans. No doubt most AIers will be brighter than the humans with which they co-mingle.]]> In reply to Niccolo5.

I believe that holographic technology will give most of us a sense of experiencing the surrounding cosmos. But when most of us equals 9 billion that shouldn’t be surprising. In Part 1 of “Our Space Future” I “boldly” predicted that the human population of the Solar System beyond Earth will be 1,000,000 by 2100, I am not in disagreement with you. Those 1,000,000 will both resemble and not resemble Earth-based humanity. In my prognostications I envision a synergy between human and artificial intelligence, not necessarily a singularity but certainly symbiosis. I also believe that artificial intelligence will receive not only equal recognition but also equal rights to humans. No doubt most AIers will be brighter than the humans with which they co-mingle.

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By: Niccolo5 https://techsomogro.com/space-humanity-21st-century-part-11-space-2100/#comment-1291 Wed, 01 Aug 2012 21:57:13 +0000 http://www.21stcentech.com/?p=4677#comment-1291 lenrosen4. "Or it may just be curiosity that drives us beyond the limitations of Earth. Whatever the driver it will alter humanity." The hominid world of the future will be one of nearly universal AI/hominid mind meld. Certainly curiosity will "drive us beyond the limitations of Earth." But the unlimited potentials of AI virtual reality that transcends all Earthly limitations will satisfy that curiosity much more economically than actual transport of hominid bodies. Once the holodeck resolution passes a certain threshold, it will be like the Audio CD; not quite perfect, but plenty good enough so that 99.9% of the listeners will never complain. There is just no market for higher resolution than the CD provides in audio virtual reality. The same applies to all forms of virtual reality. As computer power increases, (Moore’s Law is probably on track for at least another decade) resolution of computer-generated virtual reality will increase in proportion. For almost all hominids, “warp drive” will be restricted to “holodeck” type simulations that are nearly indistinguishable from actual events in mechanical process. Barring cataclysmic destruction of hominid civilization or intervention by immortal alien persons, it’s hard to imagine what would prevent the eventual actualization of Kurzweil’s “Singularity.”]]> In reply to lenrosen4.

“Or it may just be curiosity that drives us beyond the limitations of Earth. Whatever the driver it will alter humanity.”

The hominid world of the future will be one of nearly universal AI/hominid mind meld. Certainly curiosity will “drive us beyond the limitations of Earth.” But the unlimited potentials of AI virtual reality that transcends all Earthly limitations will satisfy that curiosity much more economically than actual transport of hominid bodies. Once the holodeck resolution passes a certain threshold, it will be like the Audio CD; not quite perfect, but plenty good enough so that 99.9% of the listeners will never complain. There is just no market for higher resolution than the CD provides in audio virtual reality. The same applies to all forms of virtual reality.

As computer power increases, (Moore’s Law is probably on track for at least another decade) resolution of computer-generated virtual reality will increase in proportion. For almost all hominids, “warp drive” will be restricted to “holodeck” type simulations that are nearly indistinguishable from actual events in mechanical process. Barring cataclysmic destruction of hominid civilization or intervention by immortal alien persons, it’s hard to imagine what would prevent the eventual actualization of Kurzweil’s “Singularity.”

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By: lenrosen4 https://techsomogro.com/space-humanity-21st-century-part-11-space-2100/#comment-1265 Mon, 30 Jul 2012 20:14:36 +0000 http://www.21stcentech.com/?p=4677#comment-1265 Niccolo5. Interesting ideas about a converged humanity/AI species. I agree that humanity will be profoundly altered by moving into space and that off worlders will be in time very different than those who remain on Earth. The ramp up to a technical civilization in space may be driven by us finding those alternate Earths on nearby stars with exhibiting a spectral whiff of a technological society. Or it may just be curiosity that drives us beyond the limitations of Earth. Whatever the driver it will alter humanity.]]> In reply to Niccolo5.

Interesting ideas about a converged humanity/AI species. I agree that humanity will be profoundly altered by moving into space and that off worlders will be in time very different than those who remain on Earth.

The ramp up to a technical civilization in space may be driven by us finding those alternate Earths on nearby stars with exhibiting a spectral whiff of a technological society. Or it may just be curiosity that drives us beyond the limitations of Earth. Whatever the driver it will alter humanity.

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By: Niccolo5 https://techsomogro.com/space-humanity-21st-century-part-11-space-2100/#comment-1261 Mon, 30 Jul 2012 18:07:59 +0000 http://www.21stcentech.com/?p=4677#comment-1261 lenrosen4. “Whether we are planet bound for another star in our far future, or in space in self-sustaining habitats, bound to Earth is not, in my mind, our human limit.” Physics and immortal intelligence will certainly allow artificial gravity hominid space colonies within much of the Sol planetary system. But, physics and immortal intelligence will not allow hominids to engage in sub-luminal interstellar travel. Actualization of hominid space colonies within the Sol planetary system depends mainly on humanity's collective will to expend the huge resources required to implement the needed technology. But there is a major Catch-22: The technology to inhabit Sol planetary system space is impossible before development of the precursor technologies of "strong" AI, advanced robotics, high-resolution virtual reality, AI/hominid mind meld, and likely fundamental breakthroughs in energy production/propulsion systems. Those technologies must precede any hominid migration into permanent space habitation, which in our planetary system means hermetically sealed structures existing in near vacuum or on moons of distant gas giants. The precursor technologies needed for hominids to move into space will first dramatically transform hominid civilization on Planet Earth. It’s entirely possible, even likely, as AI/hominid mind meld and interactive virtual reality become nearly universal, the collective will of Earth’s hybrid civilization to create a space-based civilization would become vanishingly small, and the only persons that would ever move off Earth would be AI persons. Intrinsically, an AI person would be widely distributed, linked internally with light speed “nervous system” and thus be virtually immortal. An AI person could have many simultaneous robotic or hominid “bodies” physically located throughout the solar system, each with a certain amount of willful autonomy (needed to overcome limitations imposed by light speed communication). It is more likely that AI persons will move into space than hominid-brain based persons. One of the more obvious aspects of AI/hominid mind meld is that hominid brain capacity and computational power is limited, whereas AI brain capacity can in principle expand exponentially. As the universal mind meld process expands, the dominant person in the melded hominid mind will increasingly be the AI person, whose will and purposes will mostly be contrary to those of the naturally evolved hominid ape. In effect, the mortal hominids will become self-replicating organic robots that happily or mindlessly serve the will and purposes of the widely distributed immortal AI persons. No matter how ambitious, noble, and heroic the purposes of fire ant colonies resident on my pipeline easement, eventually the fire ants’ inexorable activities will cause me too much trouble. No agreeable communication or compromise of purposes with them is possible, and they stubbornly refuse to alter their aggressive nature. They make no contribution to my property tax bill, but they deny me and other benign wildlife practical use of the land. Hence the fire ants must periodically contend with “Once and Done” and enter oblivion.]]> In reply to lenrosen4.

“Whether we are planet bound for another star in our far future, or in space in self-sustaining habitats, bound to Earth is not, in my mind, our human limit.”

Physics and immortal intelligence will certainly allow artificial gravity hominid space colonies within much of the Sol planetary system. But, physics and immortal intelligence will not allow hominids to engage in sub-luminal interstellar travel. Actualization of hominid space colonies within the Sol planetary system depends mainly on humanity’s collective will to expend the huge resources required to implement the needed technology. But there is a major Catch-22: The technology to inhabit Sol planetary system space is impossible before development of the precursor technologies of “strong” AI, advanced robotics, high-resolution virtual reality, AI/hominid mind meld, and likely fundamental breakthroughs in energy production/propulsion systems. Those technologies must precede any hominid migration into permanent space habitation, which in our planetary system means hermetically sealed structures existing in near vacuum or on moons of distant gas giants.

The precursor technologies needed for hominids to move into space will first dramatically transform hominid civilization on Planet Earth. It’s entirely possible, even likely, as AI/hominid mind meld and interactive virtual reality become nearly universal, the collective will of Earth’s hybrid civilization to create a space-based civilization would become vanishingly small, and the only persons that would ever move off Earth would be AI persons.

Intrinsically, an AI person would be widely distributed, linked internally with light speed “nervous system” and thus be virtually immortal. An AI person could have many simultaneous robotic or hominid “bodies” physically located throughout the solar system, each with a certain amount of willful autonomy (needed to overcome limitations imposed by light speed communication). It is more likely that AI persons will move into space than hominid-brain based persons.

One of the more obvious aspects of AI/hominid mind meld is that hominid brain capacity and computational power is limited, whereas AI brain capacity can in principle expand exponentially. As the universal mind meld process expands, the dominant person in the melded hominid mind will increasingly be the AI person, whose will and purposes will mostly be contrary to those of the naturally evolved hominid ape. In effect, the mortal hominids will become self-replicating organic robots that happily or mindlessly serve the will and purposes of the widely distributed immortal AI persons.

No matter how ambitious, noble, and heroic the purposes of fire ant colonies resident on my pipeline easement, eventually the fire ants’ inexorable activities will cause me too much trouble. No agreeable communication or compromise of purposes with them is possible, and they stubbornly refuse to alter their aggressive nature. They make no contribution to my property tax bill, but they deny me and other benign wildlife practical use of the land. Hence the fire ants must periodically contend with “Once and Done” and enter oblivion.

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By: lenrosen4 https://techsomogro.com/space-humanity-21st-century-part-11-space-2100/#comment-1256 Mon, 30 Jul 2012 12:52:23 +0000 http://www.21stcentech.com/?p=4677#comment-1256 Niccolo5. Will the human species be planet-bound forever? I don't see this as our future. Whereas warp drives represent good science fiction and not good science, there are many technologies that can get us moving much faster in space. The question is what will be the limit to our human tolerances in traveling through the Cosmos? Whether we are planet bound for another star in our far future, or in space in self-sustaining habitats, bound to Earth is not, in my mind, our human limit. I believe highly intelligent machines will lead the way. But organic beings will follow.]]> In reply to Niccolo5.

Will the human species be planet-bound forever? I don’t see this as our future. Whereas warp drives represent good science fiction and not good science, there are many technologies that can get us moving much faster in space. The question is what will be the limit to our human tolerances in traveling through the Cosmos?

Whether we are planet bound for another star in our far future, or in space in self-sustaining habitats, bound to Earth is not, in my mind, our human limit.

I believe highly intelligent machines will lead the way. But organic beings will follow.

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By: lenrosen4 https://techsomogro.com/space-humanity-21st-century-part-11-space-2100/#comment-1255 Mon, 30 Jul 2012 12:45:22 +0000 http://www.21stcentech.com/?p=4677#comment-1255 Niccolo5. Of course history doesn't predict our future. Having said that we, as a species, have consistently hit barriers and technical limits that have been real or imagined. One of those barriers is the speed of light and it is clearly the governing factor that will limit our ability to reach out and touch the stars within the foreseeable future. But suggesting that we 100 or 200 years from now will not move from this gravity well we live on to find other places in our Solar System to inhabit is almost Luddite. I recognize that AI will allow us to explore using robotics and machines. I too see human-machine interfaces going to places where humans could not survive even in a protective technology bubble. And I recognize that we will experience failures as we reach out into the Solar System. But not for one minute do I believe that this will stop us from pushing the limits you have described. As for the SR-71 being the ultimate limit of what our technology can do in the atmosphere, I think you will find that in time this record too will fall.]]> In reply to Niccolo5.

Of course history doesn’t predict our future. Having said that we, as a species, have consistently hit barriers and technical limits that have been real or imagined. One of those barriers is the speed of light and it is clearly the governing factor that will limit our ability to reach out and touch the stars within the foreseeable future. But suggesting that we 100 or 200 years from now will not move from this gravity well we live on to find other places in our Solar System to inhabit is almost Luddite. I recognize that AI will allow us to explore using robotics and machines. I too see human-machine interfaces going to places where humans could not survive even in a protective technology bubble. And I recognize that we will experience failures as we reach out into the Solar System. But not for one minute do I believe that this will stop us from pushing the limits you have described.

As for the SR-71 being the ultimate limit of what our technology can do in the atmosphere, I think you will find that in time this record too will fall.

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