Comments on: Energy Update: LENR Keeps Showing Up in the News – A Humbug or Real – Which is it? https://techsomogro.com/energy-update-lenr-showing-news-humbug-or-real/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=energy-update-lenr-showing-news-humbug-or-real Science, Technology and the Future Mon, 12 Nov 2012 21:00:05 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.8.1 By: Niccolo5 https://techsomogro.com/energy-update-lenr-showing-news-humbug-or-real/#comment-2284 Sat, 08 Sep 2012 16:07:06 +0000 http://www.21stcentech.com/?p=5317#comment-2284 lenrosen4. Len says: "You would think it was in the best interest of the inventors of this technology to make it accessible for peer review or provide open demonstrations that let industry leaders look inside the black box." Would it be in their best interests if their promoted secret technology contraptions don't actually produce significant amounts of "excess" heat? Why would promoters waste our time with a picture of an actual Tesla S Model car and insinuate the logically absurd notion that since the Tesla S car is actual, their suppositional secret technology must also be actual? For all logical purposes they might just as well have published a picture of a nuclear aircraft carrier, and proposed replacing the nuclear reactors with secret pie in the sky. All across the developed and developing world hundreds of billions of new debt are being invested each year into new power plant projects that won’t come on line for 4-5 years. Unborn generations will enter the world obligated to work to repay that debt through imposition of tax burden. If the astounding claims for commercialization of LENR were in fact true, the indebting of the unborn generations to pay for expensive, obsolete, and highly polluting, power plants is purely evil. Hence, I conclude that if the possessors of the secret truths about LENR know it actually works as claimed, they have an ethical duty to humanity in general to make decisive public demonstrations that settle the questions of commercial feasibility. The LENR promoters aren’t pure evil; they just can’t objectively prove their contraptions actually work. They are working on the traditional, “Fake it till you make it” principle that has characterized speculative new ventures since the invention of bronze and glass. So the world must ignore unproven pie in the sky suppositions/propositions, and continue on with construction of conventional power plants that implement tried and proven technology. When LENR promoters start melting substantial amounts of crushed ice with “excess heat” in objective public demonstrations the energy ministries of India and China will cease initiating new traditional power plant construction and pay billions to the inventors and promoters of LENR.]]> In reply to lenrosen4.

Len says: “You would think it was in the best interest of the inventors of this technology to make it accessible for peer review or provide open demonstrations that let industry leaders look inside the black box.”

Would it be in their best interests if their promoted secret technology contraptions don’t actually produce significant amounts of “excess” heat? Why would promoters waste our time with a picture of an actual Tesla S Model car and insinuate the logically absurd notion that since the Tesla S car is actual, their suppositional secret technology must also be actual? For all logical purposes they might just as well have published a picture of a nuclear aircraft carrier, and proposed replacing the nuclear reactors with secret pie in the sky.

All across the developed and developing world hundreds of billions of new debt are being invested each year into new power plant projects that won’t come on line for 4-5 years. Unborn generations will enter the world obligated to work to repay that debt through imposition of tax burden. If the astounding claims for commercialization of LENR were in fact true, the indebting of the unborn generations to pay for expensive, obsolete, and highly polluting, power plants is purely evil. Hence, I conclude that if the possessors of the secret truths about LENR know it actually works as claimed, they have an ethical duty to humanity in general to make decisive public demonstrations that settle the questions of commercial feasibility.

The LENR promoters aren’t pure evil; they just can’t objectively prove their contraptions actually work. They are working on the traditional, “Fake it till you make it” principle that has characterized speculative new ventures since the invention of bronze and glass. So the world must ignore unproven pie in the sky suppositions/propositions, and continue on with construction of conventional power plants that implement tried and proven technology. When LENR promoters start melting substantial amounts of crushed ice with “excess heat” in objective public demonstrations the energy ministries of India and China will cease initiating new traditional power plant construction and pay billions to the inventors and promoters of LENR.

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By: stephen russell https://techsomogro.com/energy-update-lenr-showing-news-humbug-or-real/#comment-2281 Sat, 08 Sep 2012 14:25:49 +0000 http://www.21stcentech.com/?p=5317#comment-2281 Show us some working LENR, E Cat models, make public or demo models. Produce if doable.
No snake oil time please.

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By: Joel https://techsomogro.com/energy-update-lenr-showing-news-humbug-or-real/#comment-1200 Fri, 27 Jul 2012 16:26:28 +0000 http://www.21stcentech.com/?p=5317#comment-1200 lenrosen4. Your right to bring up the patent issue, have you looked into that? If you haven't you should, its where you really start to understand whats going on. Check out this link: http://coldfusionnow.org/patenting-cold-fusion-technology-navigating-patent-office-classification-part-2/ Rossi tried the paten office and got mucked up in it. Now he and everyone else (except NASA) is persuing what David French believes is the easiest way to a patent: Bottom line: David J. French / Reply “Why doesn’t proof of a working device win a patent application? ” It is my belief that proof of a working device will lead to the grant of a patent by the United States Patent Office.]]> In reply to lenrosen4.

Your right to bring up the patent issue, have you looked into that? If you haven’t you should, its where you really start to understand whats going on.

Check out this link:

http://coldfusionnow.org/patenting-cold-fusion-technology-navigating-patent-office-classification-part-2/

Rossi tried the paten office and got mucked up in it. Now he and everyone else (except NASA) is persuing what David French believes is the easiest way to a patent:

Bottom line:

David J. French / Reply
“Why doesn’t proof of a working device win a patent application? ”

It is my belief that proof of a working device will lead to the grant of a patent by the United States Patent Office.

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By: lenrosen4 https://techsomogro.com/energy-update-lenr-showing-news-humbug-or-real/#comment-1160 Thu, 26 Jul 2012 23:42:25 +0000 http://www.21stcentech.com/?p=5317#comment-1160 Joel. I sincerely hope that this is real. I don't quite buy the argument about keeping it under wraps to protect it from being stolen. If international and provisional patents have been filed then the intellectual property should be protected. The fact that patent applications have been rejected is problematic. But it will be a wonderful discovery to see this technology proven and commercialized. Its arrival will be a planet saver.]]> In reply to Joel.

I sincerely hope that this is real. I don’t quite buy the argument about keeping it under wraps to protect it from being stolen. If international and provisional patents have been filed then the intellectual property should be protected. The fact that patent applications have been rejected is problematic. But it will be a wonderful discovery to see this technology proven and commercialized. Its arrival will be a planet saver.

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By: Joel https://techsomogro.com/energy-update-lenr-showing-news-humbug-or-real/#comment-1157 Thu, 26 Jul 2012 21:53:02 +0000 http://www.21stcentech.com/?p=5317#comment-1157 The lack of product is not the point. The existence of excess heat reported and reproduced up to Coefficient of performance of 1 in 10 out is the point. The phenomena is real. Thats a BIG deal. The fact that all of these various companies are now RACING to produce a PRODUCT after 20 years of study should also be the point. Another point is that its a NUCLEAR reaction started by a chemical reaction. Another point is WOW here is something about physics we don’t understand yet! I challenge anyone to produce a new and revolutionary product of this nature in into the market in under 5 years without it getting stolen from you. Thats what you are asking. Its simplistic to think, wow it works, why isn’t it on the market by tomorrow? This is the point you are making. If you take the time to really dive into history you will find it remarkable. Its not like this has been developing overnight. You are seeing the Beginnings of the breakout.
Don’t believe me? Follow the money, it doesn’t lie.

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By: lenrosen4 https://techsomogro.com/energy-update-lenr-showing-news-humbug-or-real/#comment-1155 Thu, 26 Jul 2012 20:00:39 +0000 http://www.21stcentech.com/?p=5317#comment-1155 Joel. I don't think I'm missing the point at all Joel. The lack of a product is the point. There is a lot of promise but no delivery. And there is no full disclosure by any of the parties. The results MIT and NASA have gotten don't match the 100X plus claims of Rossi or his derivatives. The physics is fuzzy and if this is an electrochemical reaction repeatability with consistency using the same experimental quantities and processes should yield equal results. But there is no evidence of that in any of the literature.]]> In reply to Joel.

I don’t think I’m missing the point at all Joel. The lack of a product is the point. There is a lot of promise but no delivery. And there is no full disclosure by any of the parties. The results MIT and NASA have gotten don’t match the 100X plus claims of Rossi or his derivatives. The physics is fuzzy and if this is an electrochemical reaction repeatability with consistency using the same experimental quantities and processes should yield equal results. But there is no evidence of that in any of the literature.

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By: Joel https://techsomogro.com/energy-update-lenr-showing-news-humbug-or-real/#comment-1148 Thu, 26 Jul 2012 17:48:11 +0000 http://www.21stcentech.com/?p=5317#comment-1148 Why would you fail to mention work being done at
M.I.T http://jet.xvm.mit.edu/,
NASA http://technologygateway.nasa.gov/media/CC/lenr/lenr.html, and Brillouin Energy http://brillouinenergy.com/

Your missing about 75% of the story. By focusing mostly on Rossi your missing the point.

For a full summary of the situation look here:
http://libertynewspost.blogspot.com/2012/07/cold-fusion-energy-for-ignorant-yes-it.html

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By: lenrosen4 https://techsomogro.com/energy-update-lenr-showing-news-humbug-or-real/#comment-1139 Thu, 26 Jul 2012 12:35:53 +0000 http://www.21stcentech.com/?p=5317#comment-1139 T Lee Buyea. And until we see independent reports and a working model of E-Cat we won't know whether we are being conned or not. You would think it was in the best interest of the inventors of this technology to make it accessible for peer review or provide open demonstrations that let industry leaders look inside the black box. But that has yet to happen. One can't help thinking about the Wizard of Oz and the line "pay no attention to the man behind the green curtain."]]> In reply to T Lee Buyea.

And until we see independent reports and a working model of E-Cat we won’t know whether we are being conned or not. You would think it was in the best interest of the inventors of this technology to make it accessible for peer review or provide open demonstrations that let industry leaders look inside the black box. But that has yet to happen. One can’t help thinking about the Wizard of Oz and the line “pay no attention to the man behind the green curtain.”

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By: T Lee Buyea https://techsomogro.com/energy-update-lenr-showing-news-humbug-or-real/#comment-1124 Thu, 26 Jul 2012 02:11:43 +0000 http://www.21stcentech.com/?p=5317#comment-1124 PLEASE just remember we have not seen proof positive of a single working most basic model of an E-€at. Much less a 1,000 C or car.

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